Curse

Willow O Whisper · Mar 17, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theosephus

It seems to me that a lot of the skill and class nerfs have been at least influenced by continuous and very aggressive complaints from players who type first and think later.

Anet should have people involved more deeply in day-to-day forums and championship level guild PvP and PvE. That's where you get the best suggestions and the least idiots with short attentions spans.

Put simply, I want to know exactly what criteria Anet bases its skill balancing on, and whether or not they have their finger on the pulse of the community as a whole, or just a few small focus groups.

You sir have hit the nail.... So if the devs started watching the meta instead of listining to the Whining hordes on the forums...Maybe some day.... The game will be balanced..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shudda

Lets hope they are not viable anymore.

"For Great Balance!"

tss... Why are you so hostile towards any non mesmer proffession?

Regulus X · Mar 17, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Assassins are meant to kill quickly and swiftly. Additionally, and as many posters have already made clear, there're counters to everything. Ranging from holy veil to blocking stances or enchantments of any kind, SP sins had many hoops to jump and were left in cool-down mode if their chains failed. Now, there's no viability left in the SP build. Instead, Anet has catered to lazy players that lack the proper aptitude to counter the standard SP sin completely by vanquishing their effectiveness as a whole. It makes no sense to me how Black Lotus Strike and Shadow Prison were meant to work together in unison from the get-go, and now has been deliberately shattered by Anet to please the crowd of casual PvPers that have absolutely no clue as to gameplay, knowledge, execution and timing of play.
Same goes for Shroud of Silence. I'm surprised they didn't demote that hex spell to just another normal skill. Izzy, were you under the influence of anything when you unveiled that skill update? o_o

moriz · Mar 17, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

it takes a lot more skill to interrupt an assassin combo, compared to the skill needed to hit a few keys in order. that's what it boils down to. the assassin allows an much weaker player to play at the same level as a much stronger player, with minimal effort required. as you might guess, this sits very badly in a competitive game.

don't spout the "learn2counter" idiocy as well. if you want to play a game of rock-paper-scissors, then go find a buddy and play that. no competitive game should boil down to whether if you brought the correct counter or not. the fact is, assassins have evolved to the point that they need very specific counters to hold them in check. such counters tend to be quite bad against everything else.

and yes, anet DOES watch the meta. previous to the update, the last two MATs are dominated by assassins. it was pretty obvious that they were too powerful. the fact that you people keep asking anet to "watch the meta" kinda indicates that none of you have any idea as to what's going on.

Magikarp · Mar 17, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

it takes a lot more skill to interrupt an assassin combo, compared to the skill needed to hit a few keys in order. that's what it boils down to. the assassin allows an much weaker player to play at the same level as a much stronger player, with minimal effort required. as you might guess, this sits very badly in a competitive game.

don't spout the "learn2counter" idiocy as well. if you want to play a game of rock-paper-scissors, then go find a buddy and play that. no competitive game should boil down to whether if you brought the correct counter or not. the fact is, assassins have evolved to the point that they need very specific counters to hold them in check. such counters tend to be quite bad against everything else.

and yes, anet DOES watch the meta. previous to the update, the last two MATs are dominated by assassins. it was pretty obvious that they were too powerful. the fact that you people keep asking anet to "watch the meta" kinda indicates that none of you have any idea as to what's going on.

sorry to burst your bubble, but sins are countered the same way any other melee class is. if you're making a referance to anti block skills, saying that it requires you to carry non-versitile skills in order to counter one style of gameplay, then i'd love to see what you do against AoG, guiding hands anything, or just generally anyone playing well.

you claim sins have some retard handicap, allowing them to chain their skills brainlessly, yet this is obviously untrue, because the builds that have worked in the meta are spiking builds, with next to (or none at all) no healing/defense utility/or escape options. its kill or be killed style play that takes a lot of knowledge of how, when, and where to strike, not just "i target u, no i hit 1-5.. i win". if you think thats what meta builds are, then you dont play the same game we do.

also, last time i checked, enchant removal, blind, anti melee, and blocking do wonders. dont cry to us saying we told you to learn how to play. if sins own you that bad, you clearly arent meant for this game, especially with much more dangerous builds/classes out there.. i.e. rangers/dervs/warriors.

"nerf nerf nerf... i cant beat it so nerf it". i hear people cry all day anymore about what doesnt need fixed, and this is exactly why we have a balance problem as is. *sigh*

Bobby2 · Mar 17, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

...NPCs have no such luxuries...

I fear the 'meta' is perceived to be AB, where Sins and Nukers still dominate. Which is logical, since in this format they are the best/fastest at capping (see above statement).

moriz · Mar 17, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

sorry to burst your bubble, but sins are countered the same way any other melee class is. if you're making a referance to anti block skills, saying that it requires you to carry non-versitile skills in order to counter one style of gameplay, then i'd love to see what you do against AoG, guiding hands anything, or just generally anyone playing well.

you claim sins have some retard handicap, allowing them to chain their skills brainlessly, yet this is obviously untrue, because the builds that have worked in the meta are spiking builds, with next to (or none at all) no healing/defense utility/or escape options. its kill or be killed style play that takes a lot of knowledge of how, when, and where to strike, not just "i target u, no i hit 1-5.. i win". if you think thats what meta builds are, then you dont play the same game we do.

also, last time i checked, enchant removal, blind, anti melee, and blocking do wonders. dont cry to us saying we told you to learn how to play. if sins own you that bad, you clearly arent meant for this game, especially with much more dangerous builds/classes out there.. i.e. rangers/dervs/warriors.

"nerf nerf nerf... i cant beat it so nerf it". i hear people cry all day anymore about what doesnt need fixed, and this is exactly why we have a balance problem as is. *sigh*

sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but your sheer stupidity just all came out with this post. if you think the problem is JUST sins, then your argument is valid. however, the sin is merely a very important cog in a very complex problem. that being, you can specialize all your build's spike power into two characters, and devote the other 6 in keeping the sins alive and shutting down their counters.

nerfing sins is merely the smartest and easiest way to remove this kind of dgenerate build from play.

and just fyi: no sin have completed a combo on me for weeks. i can deal with them. stop resorting to baseless insults, especially against those who are better informed than you.

Unreal Havoc · Mar 17, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

it takes a lot more skill to interrupt an assassin combo, compared to the skill needed to hit a few keys in order.

Noticing that your prefered proffession is Ranger, that statement just made me lol. You might be a good player, to be quite honest, I don't know you and I certainly don't mean to be rude, but if you find landing Distracting Shot in an Assassin combo (especially one charged by an IAS) particuarly hard then perhaps you should choose a different proffession?

Sure Guild Wars is a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, but the counters for the large majority of 1,2,3,4,5 Assassins are pretty damn basic ones: Kite, Blind, Stance block, Interrupt, KD, Decent Monk with half a brain, Snare, Hexbreaker, Holy Veil.

Aimed at no one in particular, Guild Wars is a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Instead of bitching because something is overpowered, build something to overpower it.

Not exactly rocket science now is it?

Super Igor · Mar 17, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Assassins got hit way to hard in PvP thanks to all the whining about, and ye Unreal, I lolled too watching dat "OMG! ONOZ! I KANT DEESHOT TEH ASSASSIN COMBO!!11one" thingie, yh, what can be easyer, he jumps u autoclick D-Shot possibly making a v. short delay depending on what his secondary is, easy as pie!

In the rest I cant see any other uses then Shattersining for an Assassin in PvE, yes, Shattersining as a concept is whooohooo no defences instantly! But as a build it isnt overpowered at all as u will still lack the ambush and spiking factor wilst not being made for continous pressure as of low AL could make the job risky so its not overpowered in any way.

As for PvE, Assas can still do 40+ AoE and 120+ on-target DMG a second which is aweasome.

The verdict: In PvP: Bit overnerfed but still has good, balanced concepts. In PvE: Rocks big time as it has always done.

~Super Igor

~

Bobby2 · Mar 17, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Sure Guild Wars is a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, but the counters for the large majority of 1,2,3,4,5 Assassins are pretty damn basic ones: Kite, Blind, Stance block, Interrupt, KD, Decent Monk with half a brain, Snare, Hexbreaker, Holy Veil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

...NPCs have no such luxuries...

/12chars....

Magikarp · Mar 17, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but your sheer stupidity just all came out with this post. if you think the problem is JUST sins, then your argument is valid. however, the sin is merely a very important cog in a very complex problem. that being, you can specialize all your build's spike power into two characters, and devote the other 6 in keeping the sins alive and shutting down their counters.

nerfing sins is merely the smartest and easiest way to remove this kind of dgenerate build from play.

and just fyi: no sin have completed a combo on me for weeks. i can deal with them. stop resorting to baseless insults, especially against those who are better informed than you.

then why complain? if a defensive heavy build is running ramapnt (which is isnt) in the meta, counter that, if you dont want to counter it, dont. its your illogical hot-headed reactions, and people like you, that cause this game more hurt than good. you say "nerf the whole assassin for the greater cause", yet you never once think about the hundreds of thousands that love their assassins, and play them all the time. no one really cares that some nooby junk defensive anthem chaining sin gank split team walks around in gvg, when other balanced teams still spit on that crap.

you whine way too much for being someone thats "well informed". heres a little information that could go a long way.... no one likes a whiner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

...NPCs have no such luxuries...

I fear the 'meta' is perceived to be AB, where Sins and Nukers still dominate. Which is logical, since in this format they are the best/fastest at capping (see above statement).

who cares? any class could cap in AB, so whats your point?

npcs are basic, damage dealing (or healing) computer controlled characters, and in AB and GvG, they do just that... basic skills, with basic reactions, that will only be so good. thats like saying "nerf mesmers because backfire kills my monk npcs".

sorry, but killing a few npcs isnt exactly enough for the damage that was caused to a lot of good skills that the sins had. a better work-around can always be found.. not nerfs into the dirt.

fyi, before shadowstepping, there was still teleportation, so nerf that too you criers...

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 17, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

...NPCs have no such luxuries...

could give NPCs some blocking stances rangers get [card]Lightning Reflexes[/card] Wars get [card]Defensive Stance[/card]

could prevent the insta gib but yea QFT NPC<<<<<< Gimmik Sin

Unreal Havoc · Mar 17, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

"Oh no, they insta-gibbed my NPC!" :O

Yes, let's blame the Assassin, and not complain about fixing the flawed AI and lame choice of skill set that the NPC has to prevent insta-gibbing.

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 17, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

and not complain about fixing the flawed AI and lame choice of skill set that the NPC has to prevent insta-gibbing.

bingo

any proffesion can gank a npc they suck

hell a cripshot can sit there and degen em all to death......thats not right.....

Bobby2 · Mar 17, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

1. Get a stopwatch.
2. Time the Cripshot on an NPC kill.
3. Time a basic AoD Shock Sin.
4. Compare the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

"Oh no, they insta-gibbed my NPC!" :O

INDEED!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Yes, let's blame the Assassin, and not complain about fixing the flawed AI and lame choice of skill set that the NPC has to prevent insta-gibbing.

No. But under the current (flawed) system, Sins are the class most able to capitalize on this particular flaw - hence IMBA. The addition of block/blind defense on NPC skill bars would probably warp the meta too violently for Izzy to consider.

Don't look at me, I'm enjoying my Sin. For all I care it stays this way; though I'm prepared for more (useless) nerfs to come.

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 17, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

1. Get a stopwatch.
2. Time the Cripshot on an NPC kill.
3. Time a basic AoD Shock Sin.
4. Compare the difference.

never said that the crip shot was faster i just said it could

but yea a sin has the quickest gank time of any proff right now it's fun to murder little npc's

Bobby2 · Mar 17, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

but yea a sin has the quickest gank time of any proff right now it's fun to murder little npc's

I hear ya - but ANet dozznt liek it

Leetwalrushunter · Mar 17, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Reefer Madness

Mr Fizzle · Mar 18, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Imo sins require little to no skill to play them,spam 1-4.Oh shit,the bsurge is coming let me come to the base in 2 minutes.

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 18, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Fizzle

Imo sins require little to no skill to play them,spam 1-4.Oh shit,the bsurge is coming let me come to the base in 2 minutes.

imo neither do wars

hit the monks -> adren gain -> 3....2....1..PULL MAH BLIND...SPIKE HIZ AZZ!!!!111!!!1!!

street peddler · Mar 18, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

...NPCs have no such luxuries...

I fear the 'meta' is perceived to be AB, where Sins and Nukers still dominate. Which is logical, since in this format they are the best/fastest at capping (see above statement).

all sins are good for in AB is picking off lone eles, sins are probably the worst profession for capping a shrine.